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Out of Order

The German Marshall Fund of the United States

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Out of Order

Out of Order

The German Marshall Fund of the United States

3
Followers
26
Plays
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About Us

Out of Order is a German Marshall Fund podcast about how our world was, is, and will be ordered. From the way the pandemic is shaping geopolitics; to the dark side of tech for democracy; to the political movements, elections and uprisings changing global governance; the podcast brings together international experts from inside and outside of GMF to help us understand our disordered world.In addition to Out of Order episodes, GMF also produces topical mini-series including Post-Pandemic Order and Frontlines of Democracy. All of GMF’s podcast content, along with audio from select special events, can be found in the Out of Order stream. For more information on the German Marshall Fund, visit us at www.gmfus.org

Latest Episodes

Everything You Wanted to Know About Voting in the U.S. with the Democracy Fund’s Tammy Patrick

With November 3rd just around the corner, Out of Order is continuing the elections theme this week with a conversation on voting in America— making sense of this patchwork system and how it’s all working in an unprecedented year. The host seat this week goes to David Levine, the Elections Integrity Fellow at GMF’s Alliance for Securing Democracy. Our guest this week is Tammy Patrick, a senior advisor to the Democracy Fund who served for more than a decade as an election official in Maricopa County, Arizona. Among other roles, Tammy was also selected by the Obama administration to serve as a Commissioner on the Presidential Commission on Election Administration. This episode was taped on Thursday, October 22nd, the day after the Directors of National Intelligence and the FBI announced that they had found evidence of interference attempts by both Iran and Russia. David and Tammy discuss the implications of that news and what questions still remain for the security and resiliency of the U.S. democratic system, how voting is going so far as millions vote early and by mail, and what we can expect over the next week leading up to--and after-- Election Day.

28 min4 d ago
Comments
Everything You Wanted to Know About Voting in the U.S. with the Democracy Fund’s Tammy Patrick

Reporting the Vote: CBS News' Caitlin Conant and Jennifer De Pinto on Getting the Story Right

The media plays an essential role in every democracy; but in an election season marked with uncertainty on many different levels, the responsibility of the press corps to preserve the truth while getting the story right is even greater. Now armed with the lessons of 2016—and with disinformation and misinformation still rampant – how is one of America’s most prominent broadcast networks taking on the challenge of covering the 2020 election?CBS News’ Political Director Caitlin Conant and Deputy Director of Surveys Jennifer De Pinto join the Alliance for Securing Democracy’s Rachael Dean Wilson for a conversation about how CBS News and its peers are navigating an increasingly complex information environment, what it’s learned since 2016 and how it’s preparing to cover any potential Election Day curveballs, and the role of the media in preserving the integrity of the vote in this very unusual year.

23 min2 w ago
Comments
Reporting the Vote: CBS News' Caitlin Conant and Jennifer De Pinto on Getting the Story Right

Shadow State: Josh Rudolph with Luke Harding on the Kremlin’s Quest for Chaos in the West

This week, we’re handing the mic over to Josh Rudolph, the Malign Finance fellow at GMF’s Alliance for Securing Democracy and the author of the new report, Covert Foreign Money.Josh is joined by Luke Harding, best-selling author and senior international correspondent at The Guardian. Harding, who served as The Guardian’s Moscow bureau chief from 2007-2011, recently published the new book “Shadow State: Murder, Mayhem, and Russia’s Remaking of the West.”From Novichok poisoningsto millions in covert money, Josh and Luke discuss how the Kremlin tries to spread its influence around the world. The fake news and Facebook trolls are just part of this story.Links:Book: Shadow State: Murder, Mayhem, and Russia's Remaking of the WestReport: Covert Foreign Money: Financial Loopholes Exploited by Authoritarians to Fund Political Interference in DemocraciesArticle: Alexei Navalny and the long history of poisoned Kremlin criticsOp-Ed: The Rise of Foreign Funds That Distort Western Politics

32 minOCT 1
Comments
Shadow State: Josh Rudolph with Luke Harding on the Kremlin’s Quest for Chaos in the West

What's Happening in Belarus?

For almost the entirety of its nearly three decades ofindependence, the former Soviet country of Belarushas been led under an iron fist by autocrat Alexander Lukashenko. When Belarusians went to the polls last month to vote for their next president, few could have imagined the push for political change —and the movement of mass protests that would soon catapult the country into international headlines.As protests continue amidst a violent crackdown by the government, GMF’s Jonathan Katz is joined by Artyom Shraibman, a Belarusian political analyst based in Minsk to discuss what’s really going on in Belarus, what Vladimir Putin’s role is in all of this, and why this tiny country in Europe's easthasso much geopolitical importance.This episode is the first of Out of Order’s new format. In which it will feature a rotating cast of GMF experts speaking with renowned voices in their respective fields. This discussion was taped on Friday, September 11.Show Notes:https://www.gmfus.org/b...

35 minSEP 18
Comments
What's Happening in Belarus?

From Houston to Kiev, a Global Approach to Helping Veterans Return Home

The experience of military veterans returning home may often be thought of as a local or national issue - but it is universal.From studying Denmark’s veteran's transition resources and applying best practices back in the U.S., to the unlikely path that led him to help establish the first Ministry of Veteran’s Affairs in Ukraine, no one appreciates the global aspect of veteran’s affairs more than John Boerstler, CEO of the Houston-based Combined Arms and an alum of GMF’s Marshall Memorial Fellowship.A veteran of the U.S. Marine Corps himself, John tells the story of his journey from Iraq to Houston to Denmark to Ukraine (and various place in between)and what he learned about the veteran transition experience -- and how to improve it-- along the way.Note: This episode was taped earlier this year.

33 minAUG 14
Comments
From Houston to Kiev, a Global Approach to Helping Veterans Return Home

GMF + Intelligence Squared U.S. Debate: Nationalism Is a Force for Good.

From Brexit to “America First,” Modi in India, Erdoğan in Turkey, and Bolsonaro in Brazil, nationalism – or allegiance to a nation-state over other group affiliations – has been on the rise. Now, borders around the world are closed and the coronavirus pandemic has sparked debate about the future of governance. While the nation-state has been praised for securing the needs of its citizens and serving as the most efficient form of political organization, nationalism has a dark side of insular politics and xenophobia. Does this moment--and all of its challenges--require international leadership, or should nationalism prevail? Expert debaters take on this timely topic, facing off over the motion: Nationalism is a Force for Good.

51 minAUG 6
Comments
GMF + Intelligence Squared U.S. Debate: Nationalism Is a Force for Good.

Post-Pandemic Order with William Yang

In many ways, Taiwan has a front row seat, with the coronavirus pandemic, Beijing’s new national security law, and geopolitical uncertainty further impacting Taiwan’s already tenuous position. On this episode, GMF’s Julie Smith and Deutsche Welle’s East Asia Correspondent, William Yang, dive into the most relevant questions for the island today. What is the outlook for Taiwan’s future given Beijing’s the implementation of the new national security law in Hong Kong? What lessons did Taiwan learn from battling the coronavirus? Does the Taiwanese public have confidence in the United States’ ability to play a positive leadership role in the region? How have CCP actions in Xinjiang impacted opinions in Taiwan about the Chinese government and its the use of digital surveillance tools? This episode was taped on July 17 as a live virtual event.

39 minJUL 23
Comments
Post-Pandemic Order with William Yang

Post-Pandemic Order with Jüri Luik, Estonian Minister of Defense

When the pandemic spread to Europe, NATO was met with a unique challenge: it needed to assist with crisis response while also keeping its ever-important deterrence mission intact on its Eastern Flank. On this week’s episode of “Post-Pandemic Order,” Derek Chollet talks with a key leader in this effort, Estonian Minister of Defense Jüri Luik, about how NATO’s mission evolved (and what stayed the same) throughout the pandemic—and what he learned about the military’s role during this unforeseen public health crisis. Minister Luik also discusses the resurgence of great power competition and how to balance the new challenges posed by China and with the continuing ones posed by Estonia’s neighbor, Russia. The conversation also covers the state of European defense spending – a much contested topic in the transatlantic relationship-- and why military spending should not become another victim of the pandemic, despite a bleak economic forecast.

44 minJUL 16
Comments
Post-Pandemic Order with Jüri Luik, Estonian Minister of Defense

Post-Pandemic Order with Representative Lauren Underwood

In this episode of Post-Pandemic Order, guest host Sudha David-Wilp sits down with Congresswoman Lauren Underwood of Illinois's 14th congressional district to discuss the long history of systemic racism in the United States, public health during the coronavirus pandemic, and generational perspectives on governing and leadership. Congresswoman Underwood is the youngest African American woman to be elected to the U.S. House of Representatives. Before joining Congress, Underwood had extensive public health experience as a registered nurse and as a member of the Obama administration in the Department of Health and Human Services.

15 minJUL 7
Comments
Post-Pandemic Order with Representative Lauren Underwood

Post-Pandemic Order with Jared Cohen

The perils of disinformation are no new phenomenon, but the last few months have shown just how much damage it can do—and all the different ways it can be used. On this week’s episode,Jared Cohen, founder and CEO of Jigsaw—the independent unit at Google focused on building technology to address global security challenges—joins Derek Chollet to discuss the brave new world of the internet in the post-pandemic order.

36 minJUL 3
Comments
Post-Pandemic Order with Jared Cohen

Latest Episodes

Everything You Wanted to Know About Voting in the U.S. with the Democracy Fund’s Tammy Patrick

With November 3rd just around the corner, Out of Order is continuing the elections theme this week with a conversation on voting in America— making sense of this patchwork system and how it’s all working in an unprecedented year. The host seat this week goes to David Levine, the Elections Integrity Fellow at GMF’s Alliance for Securing Democracy. Our guest this week is Tammy Patrick, a senior advisor to the Democracy Fund who served for more than a decade as an election official in Maricopa County, Arizona. Among other roles, Tammy was also selected by the Obama administration to serve as a Commissioner on the Presidential Commission on Election Administration. This episode was taped on Thursday, October 22nd, the day after the Directors of National Intelligence and the FBI announced that they had found evidence of interference attempts by both Iran and Russia. David and Tammy discuss the implications of that news and what questions still remain for the security and resiliency of the U.S. democratic system, how voting is going so far as millions vote early and by mail, and what we can expect over the next week leading up to--and after-- Election Day.

28 min4 d ago
Comments
Everything You Wanted to Know About Voting in the U.S. with the Democracy Fund’s Tammy Patrick

Reporting the Vote: CBS News' Caitlin Conant and Jennifer De Pinto on Getting the Story Right

The media plays an essential role in every democracy; but in an election season marked with uncertainty on many different levels, the responsibility of the press corps to preserve the truth while getting the story right is even greater. Now armed with the lessons of 2016—and with disinformation and misinformation still rampant – how is one of America’s most prominent broadcast networks taking on the challenge of covering the 2020 election?CBS News’ Political Director Caitlin Conant and Deputy Director of Surveys Jennifer De Pinto join the Alliance for Securing Democracy’s Rachael Dean Wilson for a conversation about how CBS News and its peers are navigating an increasingly complex information environment, what it’s learned since 2016 and how it’s preparing to cover any potential Election Day curveballs, and the role of the media in preserving the integrity of the vote in this very unusual year.

23 min2 w ago
Comments
Reporting the Vote: CBS News' Caitlin Conant and Jennifer De Pinto on Getting the Story Right

Shadow State: Josh Rudolph with Luke Harding on the Kremlin’s Quest for Chaos in the West

This week, we’re handing the mic over to Josh Rudolph, the Malign Finance fellow at GMF’s Alliance for Securing Democracy and the author of the new report, Covert Foreign Money.Josh is joined by Luke Harding, best-selling author and senior international correspondent at The Guardian. Harding, who served as The Guardian’s Moscow bureau chief from 2007-2011, recently published the new book “Shadow State: Murder, Mayhem, and Russia’s Remaking of the West.”From Novichok poisoningsto millions in covert money, Josh and Luke discuss how the Kremlin tries to spread its influence around the world. The fake news and Facebook trolls are just part of this story.Links:Book: Shadow State: Murder, Mayhem, and Russia's Remaking of the WestReport: Covert Foreign Money: Financial Loopholes Exploited by Authoritarians to Fund Political Interference in DemocraciesArticle: Alexei Navalny and the long history of poisoned Kremlin criticsOp-Ed: The Rise of Foreign Funds That Distort Western Politics

32 minOCT 1
Comments
Shadow State: Josh Rudolph with Luke Harding on the Kremlin’s Quest for Chaos in the West

What's Happening in Belarus?

For almost the entirety of its nearly three decades ofindependence, the former Soviet country of Belarushas been led under an iron fist by autocrat Alexander Lukashenko. When Belarusians went to the polls last month to vote for their next president, few could have imagined the push for political change —and the movement of mass protests that would soon catapult the country into international headlines.As protests continue amidst a violent crackdown by the government, GMF’s Jonathan Katz is joined by Artyom Shraibman, a Belarusian political analyst based in Minsk to discuss what’s really going on in Belarus, what Vladimir Putin’s role is in all of this, and why this tiny country in Europe's easthasso much geopolitical importance.This episode is the first of Out of Order’s new format. In which it will feature a rotating cast of GMF experts speaking with renowned voices in their respective fields. This discussion was taped on Friday, September 11.Show Notes:https://www.gmfus.org/b...

35 minSEP 18
Comments
What's Happening in Belarus?

From Houston to Kiev, a Global Approach to Helping Veterans Return Home

The experience of military veterans returning home may often be thought of as a local or national issue - but it is universal.From studying Denmark’s veteran's transition resources and applying best practices back in the U.S., to the unlikely path that led him to help establish the first Ministry of Veteran’s Affairs in Ukraine, no one appreciates the global aspect of veteran’s affairs more than John Boerstler, CEO of the Houston-based Combined Arms and an alum of GMF’s Marshall Memorial Fellowship.A veteran of the U.S. Marine Corps himself, John tells the story of his journey from Iraq to Houston to Denmark to Ukraine (and various place in between)and what he learned about the veteran transition experience -- and how to improve it-- along the way.Note: This episode was taped earlier this year.

33 minAUG 14
Comments
From Houston to Kiev, a Global Approach to Helping Veterans Return Home

GMF + Intelligence Squared U.S. Debate: Nationalism Is a Force for Good.

From Brexit to “America First,” Modi in India, Erdoğan in Turkey, and Bolsonaro in Brazil, nationalism – or allegiance to a nation-state over other group affiliations – has been on the rise. Now, borders around the world are closed and the coronavirus pandemic has sparked debate about the future of governance. While the nation-state has been praised for securing the needs of its citizens and serving as the most efficient form of political organization, nationalism has a dark side of insular politics and xenophobia. Does this moment--and all of its challenges--require international leadership, or should nationalism prevail? Expert debaters take on this timely topic, facing off over the motion: Nationalism is a Force for Good.

51 minAUG 6
Comments
GMF + Intelligence Squared U.S. Debate: Nationalism Is a Force for Good.

Post-Pandemic Order with William Yang

In many ways, Taiwan has a front row seat, with the coronavirus pandemic, Beijing’s new national security law, and geopolitical uncertainty further impacting Taiwan’s already tenuous position. On this episode, GMF’s Julie Smith and Deutsche Welle’s East Asia Correspondent, William Yang, dive into the most relevant questions for the island today. What is the outlook for Taiwan’s future given Beijing’s the implementation of the new national security law in Hong Kong? What lessons did Taiwan learn from battling the coronavirus? Does the Taiwanese public have confidence in the United States’ ability to play a positive leadership role in the region? How have CCP actions in Xinjiang impacted opinions in Taiwan about the Chinese government and its the use of digital surveillance tools? This episode was taped on July 17 as a live virtual event.

39 minJUL 23
Comments
Post-Pandemic Order with William Yang

Post-Pandemic Order with Jüri Luik, Estonian Minister of Defense

When the pandemic spread to Europe, NATO was met with a unique challenge: it needed to assist with crisis response while also keeping its ever-important deterrence mission intact on its Eastern Flank. On this week’s episode of “Post-Pandemic Order,” Derek Chollet talks with a key leader in this effort, Estonian Minister of Defense Jüri Luik, about how NATO’s mission evolved (and what stayed the same) throughout the pandemic—and what he learned about the military’s role during this unforeseen public health crisis. Minister Luik also discusses the resurgence of great power competition and how to balance the new challenges posed by China and with the continuing ones posed by Estonia’s neighbor, Russia. The conversation also covers the state of European defense spending – a much contested topic in the transatlantic relationship-- and why military spending should not become another victim of the pandemic, despite a bleak economic forecast.

44 minJUL 16
Comments
Post-Pandemic Order with Jüri Luik, Estonian Minister of Defense

Post-Pandemic Order with Representative Lauren Underwood

In this episode of Post-Pandemic Order, guest host Sudha David-Wilp sits down with Congresswoman Lauren Underwood of Illinois's 14th congressional district to discuss the long history of systemic racism in the United States, public health during the coronavirus pandemic, and generational perspectives on governing and leadership. Congresswoman Underwood is the youngest African American woman to be elected to the U.S. House of Representatives. Before joining Congress, Underwood had extensive public health experience as a registered nurse and as a member of the Obama administration in the Department of Health and Human Services.

15 minJUL 7
Comments
Post-Pandemic Order with Representative Lauren Underwood

Post-Pandemic Order with Jared Cohen

The perils of disinformation are no new phenomenon, but the last few months have shown just how much damage it can do—and all the different ways it can be used. On this week’s episode,Jared Cohen, founder and CEO of Jigsaw—the independent unit at Google focused on building technology to address global security challenges—joins Derek Chollet to discuss the brave new world of the internet in the post-pandemic order.

36 minJUL 3
Comments
Post-Pandemic Order with Jared Cohen
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