For some people, meditation can be devastating. Scientific investigation showed this decades ago, but health systems continue to recommend Mindfulness as a panacea. Joe and Pat were long-term meditators and are steeped in the scientific literature. They describe the puja ceremony in Transcendental Meditation and Jon describes his own experience at age 18 of learning zazen in an accredited Soto Zen monastery. This is also a discussion of the possible benefits of meditation and offers resources for the 40% of people for whom meditation causes difficulties.