Two leading pioneers in the field of cognition discuss the sea change that is underway in consciousness and evolution: Michael Levin is 10 years ahead of multiple fields in biology, producing extraordinary breakthroughs in limb regeneration, cancer, and bioengineering. Donald Hoffman is a champion of a new model that says the cosmos is consciousness first and matter second, not the other way around. The intersection of their ideas promises a universe of new possibilities grounded in testable hypotheses and solid engineering. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.